Messy Mind, Messy Space? How to Create Order in Your Life

Declutter Your Life: The Secrets of Chronic Disorganization

In a world where we are constantly bombarded with information, to-do lists, and responsibilities, organization can feel like an uphill battle. If you’ve ever struggled with keeping your space tidy, maintaining systems, or simply feeling in control of your environment, you’re not alone. Chronic disorganization is a real challenge for many people, and the good news is that it’s not a personal failing—it’s something that can be addressed and managed effectively.

What Is Chronic Disorganization?

Chronic disorganization goes beyond occasional messiness. It’s a pattern of persistent difficulty in maintaining organization, often despite repeated efforts to declutter. People who struggle with chronic disorganization may find that their clutter causes stress, reduces productivity, or even impacts their relationships. Unlike situational disorganization, which is caused by temporary life changes (such as moving or having a baby), chronic disorganization is an ongoing challenge that requires a different approach.

Many factors contribute to chronic disorganization, including:

• Neurodivergence, such as ADHD or executive function challenges

• Emotional attachment to objects

• Overwhelm from decision-making fatigue

• Lack of effective systems tailored to individual needs

Understanding the root causes of disorganization is key to making lasting changes.

The Psychology of Clutter

Clutter isn’t just a physical issue—it’s deeply tied to our emotions and mental state. Research has shown that a cluttered space can lead to increased stress and anxiety. When we are surrounded by too much “stuff,” our brains have to work harder to process information, leading to mental fatigue.

On the flip side, decluttering and organizing can bring a sense of peace and control. But the process itself can be daunting, especially when you don’t know where to start. That’s why taking a strategic, step-by-step approach is essential.

Steps to Overcoming Chronic Disorganization

If you feel like you’re constantly battling clutter and chaos, here are some effective strategies to regain control:

1. Start Small to Build Momentum

One of the biggest reasons people struggle with organization is that they try to tackle everything at once. This leads to overwhelm and frustration. Instead, start with one small area—like a single drawer or a countertop—and focus on completing it before moving on. Small wins build confidence and create motivation to keep going.

2. Identify Your Organizational Style

Not everyone thrives with the same organizational systems. Some people do well with labeled bins and color-coded files, while others prefer open storage where they can see everything at a glance. The key is to find what works for your brain and habits rather than forcing yourself into a system that feels unnatural.

3. Make Decluttering Decisions Easier

Many people struggle with letting go of items because of emotional attachments or fear of needing them later. To make decisions easier, use these guiding questions:

• Have I used this in the past year?

• Does this item add value to my life?

• Would I buy this again today? If the answer is no, it may be time to let it go.

4. Create Simple, Sustainable Systems

The best organizing systems are the ones that are easy to maintain. Use the “one-touch” rule—put things away immediately instead of letting them pile up. Establish designated spots for frequently used items to eliminate decision fatigue. The simpler the system, the more likely you are to stick with it.

5. Address the Root Causes

If chronic disorganization is tied to neurodivergence, past trauma, or emotional struggles, addressing those underlying issues can make a significant difference. Seeking support from a professional organizer, coach, or therapist can help you build personalized strategies that work for you.

6. Accept That Organization Is an Ongoing Process

There’s no such thing as a “perfectly organized” home or workspace. Life is constantly changing, and so will your organizational needs. Instead of aiming for perfection, focus on progress. Small, consistent efforts will lead to lasting results.

The Benefits of Getting Organized

Beyond having a tidy space, getting organized has a ripple effect on multiple aspects of life. Here are just a few of the benefits:

• Reduced Stress: A clutter-free environment helps create mental clarity and lowers anxiety levels.

• Increased Productivity: Less time spent searching for things means more time to focus on what truly matters.

• Better Decision-Making: When you’re not overwhelmed by clutter, it’s easier to think clearly and make intentional choices.

• Improved Well-Being: A well-organized space can boost your mood and overall quality of life.

Ready to Take Control of Your Space?

If you’ve been struggling with clutter and disorganization, know that you are not alone. The key is to take small, intentional steps toward creating systems that work for you. Whether you start by decluttering one drawer, changing the way you think about organization, or seeking support, every step forward counts.

Remember: Organization isn’t about perfection—it’s about creating a space that supports your best life. And you absolutely deserve that!

Chapter List:

00:00 Introduction to Gail Gruenberg and Her Journey

03:23 Transitioning from CPA to Professional Organizer

06:07 Understanding Chronic Disorganization

08:52 The Impact of Neurodiversity on Organization

11:22 Starting Your Organizing Journey

14:02 Working with Clients and Building Rapport

16:59 Advice for Aspiring Organizers

Full Transcript:

Gayle Gruenberg (00:00)

I want to normalize for anybody listening. Like, if you can identify with having something that affects your ability to organize, hey, you cannot beat yourself up. There is no shame. There is no judgment. It's just the way your brain works.

Amanda Kaufman (00:30)

Well, hello and welcome back to the Amanda Kaufman show. And I am delighted to welcome Gail Gruenberg, who is the chief executive officer of Let's Get Organized based in Northern New Jersey. She's a certified professional organizer in chronic disorganization, a certified virtual organizing professional, and an organizer coach.

She's also the author of Get the Big O, Organized, and Let's Get Organized Workbook Series. And in her free time, Gail enjoys attending events at her cabod, relaxing with a novel, swing dancing, and spending time with her adult children. Gail, welcome to the show.

Gayle Gruenberg (01:13)

Thank you so much for having me. I am so excited to be here with you.

Amanda Kaufman (01:17)

wonderful. So Gail and I met because earlier this year I joined a new networking organization called the Dames and Gail was so courageous and amazing. She reached out. She found out I had a podcast. She reached out. She said, can we talk? And when I found out what she did, I was like, absolutely. I couldn't wait. So again, Gail, welcome to the show. Yeah.

So Gail, talk to me a little bit about how you got into being the queen of organization. Like, what is it about this that caused you to build a whole business around it, to build books around it, the whole thing? Catch me up.

Gayle Gruenberg (01:55)

Okay, well, there's a long story, a short story, and a medium story, but in essence, it started out because I did not enjoy, all right, I'll be just totally honest, I hated being a CPA, a certified public accountant. It was like soul sucking and just like, forgive me for being graphic, but I would rather have cut my wrists than stayed in that profession. Yes.

Amanda Kaufman (02:08)

yes.

That is a sign, ladies and gentlemen. And you know what?

I think a lot of our listeners are in that situation where they picked a pathway and they're like, it's no longer aligned. It felt like achievement, but it's no longer aligned. And that's part of what's causing them to look at entrepreneurship and to build business around their expertise. I love it. So good for you for making that leap. Now, I've got to ask you, what did it take for you to transition from being a CPA

to being an expert that gets hired by other people for something completely different, know, the organization, what that take?

Gayle Gruenberg (02:55)

In order to get to the level of expertise where I am now. Well, I've been an organizer. This is my now 22nd year. It's amazing that the time has gone like that crazy. And what I've done is I tried to I have tried to equip myself with as much knowledge and experience as possible.

Amanda Kaufman (03:03)

Stop it. Really? Wow.

Gayle Gruenberg (03:15)

So I went the route of NAPO, which is now the National Association of Productivity and Organizing Professionals. Used to be national. Yeah. Yeah.

Amanda Kaufman (03:23)

I didn't even know about this. O-M to the G. Okay, so

there's a national organization. All right, so cool.

Gayle Gruenberg (03:29)

There is. And

we have a, I don't want to say a subset, but kind of like we have a specialty group, which is called the Institute for Challenging Disorganization. So, I could go on ad infinitum about the ICD. So I've tried to, I've taken as much education as I can, teleclasses and reading and conferences and my clients have taught me so much. the,

Amanda Kaufman (03:40)

Interesting.

Gayle Gruenberg (03:55)

Body of knowledge has built organically over time as well as the actual physical education because the CPOCD credential is like getting a master's degree in chronic disorganization. It takes about two years and it's a serious track of education.

Amanda Kaufman (04:08)

Wow.

It really does sound like it and you know, I Mad respect like I think that that's amazing and I'm just so curious like Is this coming because you were always the the tidy child, you know and you always had like your pencils sharpened to the same length and like you just like that's been your

Gayle Gruenberg (04:29)

You

Amanda Kaufman (04:34)

You're normal or were you a hot mess express that like Solved it and then wanted to solve it for other people like what what or was it some other some other impetus because like you're clearly a Brilliant person you got a CPA like that's no slouch You know to then turn around and go so deeply immersed in this subject like where'd that come from?

Gayle Gruenberg (04:35)

What?

boy, lots and lots of answers here. Okay, so as a small child, yes, I was a train wreck.

Amanda Kaufman (05:03)

You're a train wreck, okay.

Gayle Gruenberg (05:04)

complete

train wreck. remember the top of my dresser, I would build it up and then things would fall and I had to clean it up and somehow some way along the line and I think it probably was somewhere around second grade when my teacher dumped out my desk and it was so shame.

And I think that might have been it. That was probably the year because ironically, I also had strep. I had a strep infection that year. And there is something of a correlation between strep and OCD.

Amanda Kaufman (05:28)

Mm-hmm.

Really?

Gayle Gruenberg (05:33)

which I've picked that up along the line. So I think those two very traumatic events kind of pushed me toward being a much more organized person, as well as I might have a bit of a genetic component because my parents and my grandparents, my dad is an architect, so everything was all nicely planned and my mom as the product of my grandparents was.

very linear and my grandmother was called the mothball kid because she had everything like so nicely lined up and labeled. Well, I can't fight my nature.

Amanda Kaufman (06:07)

That's

so funny. That's really interesting. I love it. So talk to me a little bit about the kinds of people that you work with. So who do you find needs you the most?

Gayle Gruenberg (06:19)

I have the best freaking clients in the world.

Amanda Kaufman (06:22)

I love hearing that. I love hearing that. Like that's what I'm always

preaching, you know, to people is like, you want dream clients, know, entrepreneurship is hard enough as it is. You don't want to work with jerks. You don't want to work with people that you find like are deflating to your soul. So what, what is it that these amazing clients have in common that they end up coming to you?

Gayle Gruenberg (06:41)

Well, my specialty is in chronic disorganization, which is a rather large umbrella encompassing many possible brain-based challenges like ADHD, OCD, depression, anxiety, traumatic brain injury, clients that just, the way their brains work is different from what people will say is normal. And we want to say neurotypical, but.

Amanda Kaufman (06:47)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Gayle Gruenberg (07:07)

We know that there really is no such thing because normal is the setting on a washing machine.

Amanda Kaufman (07:12)

I love that. Yes, that's so

true. So often like neurodivergent or they've experienced some some sort of a Trauma that causes them to process and think differently

Gayle Gruenberg (07:22)

Yes, absolutely. And often it's the prefrontal cortex which governs our executive functions that may not be quite so stimulated in people who have executive function challenges. And that's okay. You know, I want to normalize for anybody listening. Like, if you can identify with having something that affects your ability to organize, hey, you cannot beat yourself up. There is no shame. There is no judgment. It's just the way your brain works.

And then we try to, yeah.

Amanda Kaufman (07:48)

It's just different, right? Like

it's, I think, as somebody who has experienced like quite a bit of non-normalcy in the way that I think about things, like I know what it's like to carry a lot of shame attached to that, but there's so much freedom in accepting like, it's just different. It's just different. Like, and also possibly there might even be superpowers that you have access to that

normies wouldn't, you know, so like honor it, you know?

Gayle Gruenberg (08:18)

Amen to that. Because there are

things that people like, okay, I'm left brain and very linear thinking, but then right brain and creative people, there is no way in hell I can do what right brain people do because they are just off the charts brilliant.

Amanda Kaufman (08:32)

It's so good. It's so good. So they have, they have like this different way of thinking and perceiving of the world. Is there a correlation between neurodivergence or, or different, different abled thinking that causes more clutter? Like, is that a connection?

Gayle Gruenberg (08:52)

Well, that's yes, I would say sometimes yes, because sequencing and categorizing and I'm just, my brain is going so fast, so it's not really staying in the track. And many other of the executive functions that contribute to organizing, they're not always as prevalent and it might not be as important to someone.

Amanda Kaufman (09:12)

Mm-hmm.

Gayle Gruenberg (09:16)

who is a more creative thinker. Like putting everything in a box and making it all line up and look pretty and all of that is like, why am gonna spend my time doing that when I'm just gonna mess it up again anyway? So that's where the confluence of the two types of person sometimes work really well together.

Amanda Kaufman (09:35)

Yeah, that's so interesting. I've noticed in my own ADHD experience that when I care about something, that's where the neat-knit comes out, right? That's where I'm like, I'd call this like a hyper-focus episode where I get hyper-focused and I can activate a side of my brain that it's just like, phew.

But if you look at the rest of my house, it's like, does she even care? And it's like, actually, I don't. And that's one of the reasons why the dishes might go a little longer than somebody else's dishes, or laundry might go a little longer, or I'm just looking around my office. One of the biggest culprits for me is that I'm a verbal thinker. So I have journals on journals on journals, right? And

Yeah, it's like it is awesome, but then it can sort of create like some chaos sometimes. So what would you say to someone who is considering whether they should go to the extent of hiring a coach or even just get started themselves with better organization habits if they don't innately gravitate gravitate towards that? I guess first of all, like why would they? And then what are like some tips to get them started?

Gayle Gruenberg (10:37)

I would say.

Yes. So for someone who's going to want to start an organizing project and they feel like, okay, I can do this myself, awesome. Just start and start small so that you have this wonderful feeling of That sense of accomplishment.

Amanda Kaufman (10:52)

Mmm.

Gayle Gruenberg (10:58)

of like, yeah, okay, you know what, I can do this. And it builds confidence and a project takes on momentum. So that success, the successes build on one another. And someone who might be considering hiring a coach or an organizer, I would say, don't hesitate because if you get to the point where you're like, you know what, forget this, I am good at XYZ and someone else is good at ABC.

And why don't we just merge the two talents? I often say I can't do cardiac surgery, so I'm going to hire someone who can.

Amanda Kaufman (11:30)

I mean, that's a reasonable idea. You're actually making me think of one of my favorite books, entrepreneurial books, which is who, not how, you know, right? Exactly. You know, it's like, it's okay if you don't innately have these skills or talents because someone definitely does. And so can you walk me through like when you walk, when you do work with someone, like what would they expect that experience to be like?

Gayle Gruenberg (11:32)

Right?

Yes!

Well, the first we do is a phone call. Usually someone will call and say, I need your help, please. And I personally like to have a Zoom because then I can connect with the person and I can read their facial expressions and get a feeling for them and their emotions and their voice. So I like to build that rapport. And then if they say, all right, you know what, this is great. Let's think about it.

Amanda Kaufman (12:01)

Mm-hmm.

Gayle Gruenberg (12:19)

So we have that nice initial conversation where we do get deep because in my experience, organizing is not about the stuff. It's about what's going on in your head and your heart and that just manifests in your space. So if it's your space you want to organize, we want to know what's going on on the inside. And we talk about like what are your core values and we talk about like you said, verbal processing. What are your processing modalities?

Amanda Kaufman (12:30)

Mmm.

Hmm.

Gayle Gruenberg (12:46)

you know, what are your sensory preferences? Let's get the whole person involved. And what are the challenges you're facing? What are your strengths and talents? And then on site, step three is to actually start to clear. So I have my seven step process, which is in the book and it's consult, consider, clear, categorize, contain, control and coach.

Amanda Kaufman (13:10)

Wonderful, wonderful. I think that one of the biggest things that I've noticed in my own experience and family members and just like whenever there's a clutter or disorganization challenge or even in clients, because often I do a lot of digital marketing with coaches and if you are a hot mess express with your assets and how you're going about doing your digital...

organization that can actually cause a ton of friction in your execution and a lot of frustration like I I'm working on a new bundle that I'm going to be offering for helping new coaches get their first five clients and I went crazy for like a good two hours a few days ago because I couldn't locate a video file so like the and and you know it basically reduced it down to like all right I'm just gonna reshoot the thing but you know I think that that

experience both digitally and in the real world it causes so much friction and I've noticed like a lot of people these days even if they don't identify as neurodivergent or they've never been diagnosed as neurodivergent there's almost like this increase in those tendencies of not not holding attention not not slowing down to organize being in a rush all the time being overwhelmed all the time like I can really see how that clutter

can really creep up on people quickly.

Gayle Gruenberg (14:33)

And the time, time just goes so quickly. And we're bombarded with so much all the time that it's hard to maintain control.

Amanda Kaufman (14:37)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Exactly, exactly. So do you find like a lot of the people that you work with are are they typically like business owners? Or are they often working in corporate? Are they kind of all over the place?

Gayle Gruenberg (14:56)

well, my current mix. I have a few people coming in lately who are older adults, seniors in their mid 70s to mid 80s, and they've been either disorganized most of their lives, which is part of the definition of chronic disorganization, or they have these physical challenges that all of a sudden have crept up on them and they just can't maintain things anymore.

Amanda Kaufman (15:17)

Mmm.

Gayle Gruenberg (15:17)

a couple

of ladies with TBI's, traumatic brain injuries, a couple of retirees, like ladies in their mid-60s who are just like, I can't get it together. And now they have the time and the finances to be able to address these challenges.

Amanda Kaufman (15:33)

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, that makes a lot of sense that in that season of life, you would want more peace as well. And that would probably contribute a lot. So a lot of people that listen to this show, they are either starting a business or they're looking to narrow in their focus. And what you've done is an extremely wonderful example of how you can take like a passion or an interest of yours. You can get the profession,

credentials for it. You you do the work and then you can earn that. And there's even associations around this. If somebody is like, my gosh, you know, this is the thing that I want to pursue. I want to become an organization expert. What would you say is the best next step for them to take?

Gayle Gruenberg (16:20)

I would say familiarize yourself with NAPO and ICD and see if either of those resonates with you because there are definitely education tracks in both. And also think about the kind of person you'd like to work with. Yeah, because sometimes people who are chronically disorganized can be challenging. They can be stubborn.

Amanda Kaufman (16:23)

Mm-hmm.

That's so good.

Mm-hmm.

Gayle Gruenberg (16:43)

and really dig in their heels and say, don't want to change. And then there are those who are like, you know what, I just, don't care, just go do it because I'm too busy and do whatever you want in my space. So there are two schools of thought in my view.

Amanda Kaufman (16:59)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and that's that's where the coaching really does come in of just being able to really listen Have compassion. I love how in your process you start with what are your values? What are your preferences for processing? You know all of those things those are pretty universal no matter what kind of coaching you do you want to make sure that you're operating from that place ideally because You know an idea thought is always going to be much more powerful than an idea planted and I think a common misconception of

of what it is to be a coach is to be like bossy pants on somebody else's life. And that's like not our role, right? Our role is to facilitate a process that helps them get there faster with greater confidence or avoiding unnecessary cost. So I love it. I love how you do it, Gail. For the listeners that wanna follow you and see what else you're up to, what's the best way for them to do that?

Gayle Gruenberg (17:51)

The best way is to come to the website, is lgoorganized.com.

Amanda Kaufman (17:55)

Wonderful. And I understand there's a book available on that website?

Gayle Gruenberg (18:00)

There is, there is. You can download at least the first chapter. It's on the website right at the top. You can click the purple button. The book is called Get the Big O.

Amanda Kaufman (18:07)

I love it. Get

the big O, get organized. I love it. So good. Well, Gail, thank you so much for joining me on the Amanda Kaufman show.

Gayle Gruenberg (18:18)

Thank you so much for having me.

Amanda Kaufman (18:20)

my pleasure and listener hey do us a favor and leave a review an honest review Which I honestly think gail did a five star out of five for this episode that my personal take but seriously if you just take a moment to rate the episode and to leave a 30 second review it'll help people to choose this episode when they go out for their walk or when they're about to take a long drive and we really really appreciate you doing that in fact if you've got some friends who would love to hear that, you know

chronic

disorganization, there are solutions. You could share it with a friend that way, or if you've got another coachy friend that you think might be really interested in pursuing this track, this niche of coaching, then go ahead and grab the link to the episode and text it forward to them. And when you share it with like three people, you're gonna be spreading a lot of good in the world. My name is Amanda Kaufman and we will be back with our next episode very soon. We'll see you soon.