Loving Better: A New Way to Support Someone Through Struggles

How do you support someone you love who's going through something incredibly hard—without losing yourself in the process?

That’s the question we explored in this heart-opening episode of The Amanda Kaufman Show with guest Lisa Katona Smith, founder of Parallel Recovery and a nationally recognized voice in family recovery.

Lisa brings a powerful mix of lived experience, professional expertise, and deep empathy. Her message? That the way we typically talk about—or avoid talking about—struggles like substance use, mental health, and emotional burnout isn’t just unhelpful... it can be harmful.

A Conversation We’re Not Having Enough

Lisa shares how she stepped into this work not by design, but out of necessity. As a mother navigating her son’s challenges with substance use disorder and mental health, she found that the support available to families was either shame-driven or emotionally disconnected. Neither felt right—and neither actually helped.

“I couldn’t find me,” Lisa says. “So I became who I needed when I was at my lowest point.”

That became the foundation of her approach: to create space where families could heal with the people they love—not by abandoning them or overextending themselves, but by learning how to “love better.”

The Power of Language and Connection

One thing that immediately stood out to me was Lisa’s intentional use of language. She doesn’t say “addict” or “substance abuse”—she says substance use disorder. That shift in vocabulary isn’t about being politically correct. It’s about removing shame from the conversation so that healing becomes possible.

“We don’t wait until someone is at stage four cancer to treat them,” Lisa said. “Why would we wait until someone has lost everything to offer support?”

She also shares that the diagnostic criteria for substance use disorder changed in 2018, now recognizing mild, moderate, and severe levels. That matters, because it allows people to get help sooner—before a full-blown crisis hits.

Why “Detaching with Love” Isn’t Always the Answer

Lisa talks about how many traditional approaches to family recovery push detachment—often with the message that if you love someone, you’ll let them go and focus on saving yourself.

But what if that doesn’t feel right? What if stepping back actually disconnects you from the person you love, and adds more shame to the dynamic?

That’s why Lisa created what she calls the “step-back framework.” Instead of cutting someone off, she teaches how to take a strategic pause—doing the inner work to recognize your own patterns, your impact, and your emotional health—so that you can re-enter the relationship with a new mindset.

“You can’t connect to someone if you’re completely depleted,” she says. “And you can’t create sustainability for yourself by disconnecting from someone you deeply love.”

Mental Health Is Still Too Isolating

One of the most moving moments of our conversation was when Lisa said this:

“Mental health is not casserole-worthy. People don’t sign up to do a meal train when you’re going through this.”

That hit me hard—because it’s true.

When someone is struggling with cancer or surgery, people rally. But when the struggle is emotional, behavioral, or related to mental health, people pull away. Lisa is working to change that by inviting people into a different kind of conversation—one that’s rooted in humanity, not fear or shame.

For the Entrepreneurs and the Overachievers

A lot of our listeners are entrepreneurs, and I asked Lisa about that directly. Because let’s be honest—many of us are dopamine-driven, high-performance individuals who might be overworking or overindulging to cope with unspoken stress.

Her advice? Start with curiosity.

If you’re wondering whether your relationship with substances, or your coping habits, might be unhealthy—ask someone. A primary care doctor, a therapist, a recovery specialist. You don’t have to be in a full-blown crisis to check in. Early conversations can make all the difference.

You’re Not Alone—and You Don’t Have to Pretend

Lisa closed the conversation with a message I want to repeat here: Don’t do it alone. Every family is affected by emotional health challenges at some level, even if no one talks about it.

You are not a bad person for struggling. You are not weak for needing support. And you do not need to hit rock bottom to change.

There is a way to love others better—and it starts with how we show up for ourselves and each other.

🎧 Listen to the full episode of The Amanda Kaufman Show wherever you get your podcasts—or watch on YouTube!
And if this conversation moved you, share it with someone you love. You never know who needs to hear it.

🔗 Connect with Lisa Katona Smith
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/parallel_recovery/
👥 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/reclaimandrecover
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisa-katona-smith-

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Chapters List

00:00 Introduction to Family Recovery and Substance Use Disorder

03:19 The Role of Language in Recovery Conversations

05:59 Creating a New Approach to Loving Better

08:39 Understanding the Prevalence of Substance Use Disorder

11:23 The Importance of Early Intervention

14:17 Navigating Personal Relationships with Substance Use

17:01 Seeking Help and Support

19:46 Conclusion and Resources for Recovery

Full Transcript

Lisa Katona Smith (00:00)

I show up how I needed and I couldn't find me. So I became who I needed when I was really at my lowest point.

Amanda Kaufman (00:26)

Hello and welcome back to the Amanda Kaufman show and we're already having a good time. I've got Lisa Katona-Smith here joining us today and let me tell you a little bit about Lisa. So Lisa is the founder of Parallel Recovery and she's a nationally recognized voice in the landscape of family recovery. And she's a certified peer recovery specialist, a TEDx speaker and the author of the forthcoming book,

Parallel Recovery, a guide for those who love someone struggling with substance use disorder. Lisa blends over 20 years as a master level educator with personal experience navigating a loved one's addiction and she is known for her clarity, emotional depth, strategic insight, being a genuinely awesome person. Lisa, thank you so much for joining me on the show today.

Lisa Katona Smith (01:16)

Thank you so much, Amanda.

Amanda Kaufman (01:19)

My pleasure. You know, I loved, obviously getting to know you as a human, just like totally amazing, but something that really caught my eye when I started to get to know you better in the, in the different communities that we interact in is I noticed that you said someone struggling with substance use disorder.

And whenever somebody uses such very specific language that is not necessarily like the common phrase or the common way of talking about something hard, you you said you wanted to have an easy conversation about some things that are hard today. And I was like, man, let's do it. You know, this is talking about, you know, substance abuse and addiction and the effect that it might have if we're personally dealing with it, if we've got family members dealing with it.

It's just, it is such a common struggle, but people pretend like it's really, really not. And so was really excited to have you here because you do have such a beautiful way of approaching the conversation. So yeah, let's do it.

Lisa Katona Smith (02:18)

Let's do it.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm here for it. Here for the words.

Amanda Kaufman (02:22)

Let's do

it. I'm here for the words. Yeah, me too. Girl after my heart. I love it. So, Lisa, I love asking entrepreneurs, you know, why this? You could do anything. You've got a lot of experience. could direct your energy anywhere. What is it about working with loved ones, especially on substance use disorder? I'm still getting used to the phrase, but I love it. I think it's a great way to put it.

Lisa Katona Smith (02:46)

Yeah, it's a mouthful for sure.

Amanda Kaufman (02:48)

⁓

Lisa Katona Smith (02:49)

Yeah.

Amanda Kaufman (02:50)

But like, why this? Of all the things that you could focus on.

Lisa Katona Smith (02:53)

Yeah. well definitely did not start my life thinking this was the seat that I was going to be sitting in. But ultimately over the course of, you know, kind of our family's journey, I realized that there wasn't help for family members and the help that was being offered to me as a mom and to our family as, you know, someone who loved somebody. My oldest son struggles with substance use disorder and mental health challenges.

it wasn't sufficient. It was very shame driven or dismissive, or, or directed, you need to, there's a lot of you need tos and you shoulds. and it really just didn't settle with me as a mom. didn't take into consideration that I was also impacted and that frankly, if I didn't want to necessarily admit to it at the time, but I also had a role in the illness and, I played a role and I needed to learn how to play a different role.

So I sort of show up and say that I work in a way that I needed. I show up how I needed and I couldn't find me. So I became who I needed when I was really at my lowest point.

Amanda Kaufman (04:00)

Yeah, I love that, you know, and becoming who I needed. And so like, who is that? Who did you need? Tell us a little bit more about like, well, what is that? And I'm already picking up that it's certainly not you should, you know, and getting up in your face about that. ⁓

Lisa Katona Smith (04:08)

Yeah.

Yeah, there's no you should. There's no you should. Yeah. I mean, I mean,

really, I think it's it's what was missing in sort of in that lane of the families being impacted. There was one of two one of two options for families. There was shaming and, you know, letting them know how they screwed this up and how they were doing things wrong. That that's not helpful. That does not motivate people to want to do better for sure.

and then the other piece of that was, you know, basically, older approaches of, know, you need to help yourself step away from this, detach, detach with love, which I, viscerally disagree with that statement. and there's some value and some truth in that families get completely entangled and overwhelmed and hijacked by other people's behaviors. but

What wasn't being offered was how do I love this person that's really important to me? So either the way you're loving is bad. That doesn't feel good to a particularly a parent or get out, get out and save yourself. And that doesn't feel good to a parent either. And I've created step back so that you can step back into this relationship, step back, do some work on yourself.

You know, how have I been participating in the behavior? How have I been loving in a way that isn't helpful? And how have I been impacted and need to take care of myself? And then being able to, I say, step in a different door. Like the door you were going into in this relationship was not working for you nor for them. It was working for the disease, but it wasn't working for the people. So can you step back into this relationship?

different way and I call it loving better learning to love better and that is there's science behind it it sits with people better and honestly they get on board and it is a journey it is their journey which is why I call it parallel recovery it's about sharing the burden of change in the disorder with the person who's sort of behaviors are talking the loudest because they're the scariest

Amanda Kaufman (06:25)

Yes. my gosh, there's so much that I love about this, you know, because I even just think even more broadly about how people get recommended to handle relationships these days. It's so black and white. It's like, okay, you either are gonna be, you know, fully high pressure, you know, be in somebody's face or you...

completely cut them out and it's boundaries, but very unhealthy boundaries. And what I love about how you're framing this and kind of that metaphor of the two doors is that it's really about changing the pattern. It's changing the routine and it's never throwing out the person. think, in my opinion in the world right now, there's far too much people throwing, of just like throwing the people out and.

Lisa Katona Smith (06:49)

So, yeah.

Yes.

Amanda Kaufman (07:14)

you know, especially when you have stakes in the relationship, the mother, you know, the mother and the child or, you know, in the spouse or even among friends and things like that, like to just throw or block a whole person out indefinitely, like as the final solution just doesn't doesn't seem like the way, you know, so I love how you're approaching this. It's like it can't stay the same, but it also doesn't have to be.

Lisa Katona Smith (07:33)

Yeah.

Amanda Kaufman (07:40)

It doesn't have to be different in a way that is out of congruence.

Lisa Katona Smith (07:44)

Yeah, a hundred percent. If I like pare down, you know, my message and my, my philosophy and you're, you're not wrong, Amanda, this is, this is relational. This is not just with, you know, really high crisis, you know, behaviors. This is just as just relationships one-on-one. but it's sustainability of you, right? Like how can you sustain this relationship that

that might be challenging because there's behaviors or characteristics or dynamics that are difficult and connection. How can I connect to the person? You can't connect the purse to the person if you don't create sustainability for yourself and you can't honestly if we're going to be honest, we can't create sustainability for ourself if we disconnect from the person if you actually love them. That's not those two things don't they don't make sense. And so

Amanda Kaufman (08:24)

I'm.

Mm.

Lisa Katona Smith (08:39)

the all or nothing mindset is really not sustainable and it's not connected either. I it's just not healthy. Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

Amanda Kaufman (08:46)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Very, very

punitive, you know, very just like...

Lisa Katona Smith (08:52)

Yeah.

Amanda Kaufman (08:55)

I can see how like, maybe why that might be that people default to more of a punitive or an all or nothing or black and white is because nobody talks about it. They don't talk like based on your research, you know, how common really is it for people to be struggling or affected by the I'm still learning the term substance use disorder like how prevalent is it?

Lisa Katona Smith (09:03)

Yeah.

Yeah, so according to the National Institute of Health and the CDC, 46.3 million people in the US qualify for a diagnosis of substance use disorder. And one thing that's actually really great about substance use disorder diagnoses now, which I think this is an actually important thing to talk about because people who are adults today,

have a vision of if you are somebody who has an addiction to drugs or alcohol, what that looks like. And it looks pretty bad. In 2018, the criteria changed from addiction or not addiction to a spectrum of mild, moderate and severe. And so while that opened up diagnostic criteria for more people, it opened up help.

at an earlier stage. So, I mean, it would be ridiculous if we only diagnosed cancer at stage four. Like, a lot of people would die. Yet we now diagnose cancer at stage one. Why would we not diagnose another disorder at stage one? And so substance use disorder is now diagnosable at a much sooner, less impacted...

And I really want people to hear that you don't have to have burned your life down to have a unhealthy relationship with substances and have a mild diagnosis that is really treatable and really able to get on top of before big major things happen. So I think that's one thing I want to say. But essentially, one in 12 people in this country are impacted by substance use disorder.

And so I like to tell people I don't like to tell it, but I kind of show up and say, this is not just in your community. This is on your doorstep in your extended family. There is probably somebody impacted directly by an unhealthy relationship with substance use. And so you are in direct contact with somebody and changing our language, changing our understanding.

Changing the way we communicate with those human beings can really impact their ability to get the help that they need.

Amanda Kaufman (11:32)

This is so, so huge and so many things are made better by bringing a bit of nuance into the discussion and starting to play in the gray. Because to your point, I think about any habit, any behavior, okay, I'm gonna give one, it's not substance abuses, but it was an interesting thing. We busted our 12 year old on sneaking screen time and he was accessing YouTube and we were like, that's not great.

Lisa Katona Smith (11:39)

Yeah. Yeah.

Bye.

Yeah.

Amanda Kaufman (12:01)

And but what we did is we actually looked at, because nerd, I went and I looked at the screen time profile for the for the app YouTube. And it was so interesting because like the first time he did it was like a short amount of time. And then he waited several days. The next time he did it, it was a little bit longer and he waited a couple more days. And then by the third, we caught him on the third week of this. He was very sticky. But by the time he got to the third week,

Lisa Katona Smith (12:21)

Mm-hmm.

Amanda Kaufman (12:28)

he had quadrupled the amount of time per session and had done it nearly every day. And like that's how behavior is warmed, right? And like that's how behavior is shaped. know, undesirable behavior, you know, obviously cut off his YouTube access and, you know, retraining that behavior really early in the incident. But you can just like see it in the numbers of like how behavior adoption.

Lisa Katona Smith (12:35)

Yep.

No.

Amanda Kaufman (12:52)

can change in pretty rapidly and pretty significantly. And that's without it necessarily even being a substance, right?

Lisa Katona Smith (12:57)

Yeah, it's a reward sensor. Yeah,

there's a reward, right? Behavior that is reinforced is repeated. And I mean, you can't really argue the chemicals. And whether it's drugs or alcohol or screen time or satiation from food or shopping or whatever it is, that can ultimately become unhealthy. mean, none of those...

Amanda Kaufman (13:07)

Mm-hmm.

Lisa Katona Smith (13:25)

things have to be unhealthy from the beginning, but can ultimately become unhealthy. And you know, what's really interesting too is there's so much research, this diagnostic change, there's so much research around like age of introduction around the, I'm going to use the word and then I'm going to go back and explain it. Genetic makeup of the brain, because there isn't a genetic marker for addictive behavior. However, there is,

genetic predisposition to certain brains having less control of that dopamine reward that we get from things to include human connection. I mean, we get dopamine reward from all sorts of things, but unhealthy things. There are certain brains that are definitely more impacted and really having those conversations younger.

And you know, it's not, it doesn't have to be a shameful thing. There's several really great books out there around particularly young people and understanding the predisposition that might be out there for those people. I'm happy to talk about that maybe on another time, but you know, it's really an interesting thing. And if we can have conversations around, know, do you remember when

Amanda Kaufman (14:22)

Hmm.

Lisa Katona Smith (14:43)

We talked about YouTube and how that was, you you just kept getting drawn into that. You can then have later subsequent conversations about, you know, how your brain reacts to certain stimulus and it being something that you need to pay attention to as you get older and you have open more opportunities for other stimulus that might come in to include drugs and alcohol, which can become really dangerous really quickly.

Amanda Kaufman (15:08)

Absolutely, absolutely. And I love your framing of that, you know, because, you know, I'm just, thinking about like, well, if you had a gluten sensitivity or if you're lactose intolerant, you know, it's like, okay, I mean, like that's, that's your biology. That's how it's, it's geared. It doesn't mean that you have to have a low quality of life. It means that you need to be aware that maybe you have certain sensitivities to, or any other kind of allergy, right? You might have sensitivities to these things. And if we can have sort of a similar, more neutral

emotional conversation about, you know, behavior and the behavior adaptation that seems like a very empowering place to start to really see some meaningful change. I love that. So Lisa, I mean, I could seriously do four hours on this particular topic. is such a deep one and it affects so, so many people.

Lisa Katona Smith (15:48)

It is.

Yeah.

Amanda Kaufman (15:59)

And one of the reasons I was so excited to have you here is because entrepreneurs in particular, they tend to be those dopamine hunters and behind the scenes there's often a lot that particularly is affecting entrepreneurs. So if somebody was listening to this and they're like,

I think I might have maybe more of a problem than I thought, or I don't know. What would you say would be that signal that maybe they should explore substance use disorder? Who should they go to? What should they do next if they're listening to this and they're like, what if? What if I'm affected? What if somebody close to me might be affected?

Lisa Katona Smith (16:35)

Yeah, yeah. think there's two lanes to that question. Amanda, one is like, if you're personally feeling like I might be on the edge of an unhealthy relationship with my coping skills, particularly substances, because that's what kind of my pocket of bandwidth is my zone of genius. would say, you know, open up a conversation with just your primary care physician or if you see a therapist that, you know, is

skilled in substance use, that would be really good. And not everybody is, but, you know, just kind of say, I'm kind of, curious. I, I wonder if the way I'm relating to substances and using them might be like on the edge of not healthy. And I want to open up a conversation, just start a conversation. We're so afraid that, and I think because we've been conditioned that you're a bad

person, if you don't have control of this particular thing, that you are somehow morally bad, you're not. even medical doctors are becoming more and more understanding and empathetic to the fact that that's not the case. It is a slippery slope to get out of control and open up a conversation with that physician and see what sort of resources are out there for you.

If you're an entrepreneur that is digging into your work because you've got some stuff in your family that you're maybe trying to avoid or, you know, yeah, avoid, work through, work around. I would say reach out, reach out to me again, reach out to any professional that has a current understanding, particularly of the family system and the involvement in.

addictive behaviors because there is in the last 15 years, it's, it's really changed. And I would say even today, I'm shocked at how many people professionals that I talk to that still use really outdated language of shame and, um, moral failing. Um, so I'm happy to have a conversation about, you know, how you can work through this with your person that you love.

in a way that's very motivational and empowering and connected and sustainable. Happy to have a conversation about what that looks like. But don't do it alone. It is very isolating. I think in particular mental health, the umbrella of mental health is so isolating. It's not casserole worthy. People don't sign up to do a meal train when you're going through this. In fact, I would say that when people find out you're going through this,

Amanda Kaufman (18:57)

outstanding.

Lisa Katona Smith (19:16)

They retreat for several reasons. They don't know how to show up for you good in a supportive way. And I think on some level it feels like you can catch it, which you can't. And they want to separate because it's so uncomfortable. I mean, I just really, I want to encourage you to not do this alone. It is, like I said, one in 12 people in this country are affected. That means

Amanda Kaufman (19:31)

you

Lisa Katona Smith (19:42)

Every single family is affected by this on some level.

Amanda Kaufman (19:46)

Yes, my gosh, so powerful and very helpful and never go alone. I mean, you've heard this a million times if you've been listening to the show, but now Lisa said it, so really don't. Don't go alone. Lisa, if people wanted to keep up with you, what's the best way to do so?

Lisa Katona Smith (19:59)

Let's go.

Sure. My Instagram is where I'm most active, parallel underscore recovery. Or you can find me on my website, lissacatonasmith.com. And love to have a conversation. Just reach out via DM or email anyway.

Amanda Kaufman (20:17)

I love it, that's so good. And dear listener, we've got all of Lisa's links below in the show notes. So if you wanna easy click, just head down to the show notes and you'll be able to access them there. Lisa, thank you so much for joining us on the show.

Lisa Katona Smith (20:31)

Thanks, Amanda. Loved the conversation.

Amanda Kaufman (20:34)

Absolutely. And dear listener, if you love this, make sure you hit the subscribe button so you never miss another episode. if you have, like she said it, you know somebody who would probably benefit from this episode. So just grab the link, however you're listening to it, or if you're watching us on YouTube, go ahead and share it with your friend. Just send it to them on a DM or over text and just tell them like, what did you learn or what did you hear that you loved in the show? And that would be such a huge gift to your friend. And you know, if you want to give us a little gift,

while we're at it, a honest review. know, there's 30 seconds to tell us what you think of the show makes a massive difference because it helps people to decide whether they want to spend time with us or not. And of course, we are always very grateful for those reviews. Thank you so much for joining us. And until we see you next time, make sure you do what matters.