Stepping Over Dollars to Get to Dimes: How to Scale with Bigger Clients

The Shift That Scales: How to Land Bigger Clients Without Changing What You Do

Featuring Shayna Rattler Davis on The Amanda Kaufman Show

What if the reason you're not scaling your business isn’t your pricing, your niche, or even your visibility…
What if you're simply selling your brilliance to the wrong audience?

That’s the eye-opening truth that Shayna Rattler Davis dropped on her recent guest appearance on The Amanda Kaufman Show. As an award-winning media and money mentor — and host of a globally ranked podcast — Shayna has helped entrepreneurs, celebrities, and corporate clients land transformative deals. In this episode, she gives us an inside look at what separates high-earning entrepreneurs from those spinning their wheels.

And let’s just say… it’s not more hustle.

Stepping Over Dollars to Get to Dimes

Shayna wastes no time getting to the heart of the issue: far too many coaches and entrepreneurs are “stepping over dollars to get to dimes.”

It’s not that your offer isn’t good enough.
It’s not that your audience doesn’t like you.
It’s simply that many of the people you're selling to either can’t afford your services or don’t value them enough to invest — even on a payment plan.

“Imagine taking the exact same skill set you already use and repositioning it for larger organizations,” Shayna explains.
“They already have the budget. They already value personal development. The difference is in the packaging and positioning — not the actual service.”

This isn’t theory. It’s backed by data.

The Million-Dollar Secret No One’s Talking About

Most entrepreneurs have heard the stat that only 2% of small business owners ever break the million-dollar mark.

But here’s the part almost no one mentions:

Of those who do? 56% of their revenue comes from larger organizations.

In other words, getting to 7-figures isn't necessarily about adding more offers, more funnels, or more social media posts. It's often about shifting your audience — even partially.

What would it do for your business if just 20% of your clients were corporate contracts?

You Don’t Have to Pivot — You Just Have to Add

Here’s where Shayna's message really shines. She’s not telling you to walk away from what you’ve built. She’s telling you to expand your reach.

“I have services that I offer to business owners, and I have services I offer to larger companies. And honestly? It doesn’t take me much more effort to close a corporate contract than it does to get an entrepreneur into a $1,500 program.”

That’s a huge “aha” for so many coaches who feel like serving bigger clients requires a full business overhaul. But as Shayna explains, it's often about repositioning what you're already doing.

Maybe you're already a business coach helping solopreneurs get organized and strategic. Why not package that same framework for mid-level managers inside a company?

If you’re a mindset coach for moms, could you shift that message to support HR wellness initiatives?
If you teach confidence to individuals, what would it look like to train sales teams on executive presence?

The Transcendent Brand: Shayna’s Power Strategy

One of the most powerful frameworks Shayna shares is the idea of building a transcendent brand.

Rather than boxing yourself into one narrow niche, ask yourself: What umbrella theme does my work fall under?

For Shayna, that theme is influence.

“I don’t brand myself as a podcast expert, even though podcasting is central to my strategy,” she says. “I brand myself as an influence expert.”

That branding allows her to:

• Serve entrepreneurs looking to grow visibility through media and speaking
  
  

• Train corporate teams on executive presence and communication
  
  

• Appear on national media discussing influence and leadership
  
  

This strategic positioning lets her scale without reinventing her process for every audience. It also opens the door to what she calls the “High Five” Opportunities:
✔️ Corporate contracts
✔️ Corporate sponsorships
✔️ Major media appearances
✔️ High-paid speaking gigs
✔️ Traditional book deals

The Influence Economy

Shayna has coined her own approach as the Influence Economy — a system for treating your visibility as a business asset instead of just a marketing tactic.

“When we begin to treat our influence like an asset, we open up a whole new era of success.”

She even offers a playbook that helps entrepreneurs calculate their Visibility ROI — measuring which activities actually move the needle toward real revenue.

The best part? She’s offering that playbook, normally a paid resource, for free to Amanda’s audience.

👉 Grab your copy at InfluenceEconomyPlaybook.com
Use code: free (and don’t forget to click the checkmark!)

So… Are You Ready to Expand?

Here’s the truth: you don’t have to pivot.
You don’t have to burn your current business down.
But if you're serious about building predictable, scalable revenue — it's time to think bigger.

Let Shayna’s message be your catalyst.

Revisit your offers. Re-evaluate your audience.
And remember: you can serve both consumers and corporations.

Same skills. Bigger checks.
The shift is simpler than you think.

🎧 Listen to the full episode of The Amanda Kaufman Show featuring Shayna Rattler Davis now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or YouTube.
Let this be the episode that upgrades your entire business model.

Chapters List

00:00 Introduction to Shana Rattler Davis

02:39 The Accidental Entrepreneur

06:38 Shifting Perspectives on Business Models

10:31 Building Influence and Revenue Streams

14:13 Creating a Transcendent Brand

18:10 Niche Marketing and Expanding Opportunities

21:52 Conclusion and Free Resource Offer

Full Transcript

Shayna Davis (00:00)

individual consumers, they either don't value investing in themselves or even if they do, they don't have the money to afford to, be able to pay you what is that you're charging. And so if we could just shift our perspective of what if I took the exact same skillset that I'm selling this product or service to individual consumers and I positioned it.

Amanda Kaufman (00:06)

off the capacity.

Shayna Davis (00:22)

for larger companies, what could that do for me?

Amanda Kaufman (00:44)

Well, hey, hey, welcome back to the Amanda Kaufman show. And I'm so excited to have my avocado friend, Shana Rattler Davis, join me here in the studio. Hey, Shana, welcome to the show.

Shayna Davis (00:57)

I'm so happy to be here. Now they're probably wondering like, the heck is an avocado friend? So we've got to tell them a little bit about where that came from.

Amanda Kaufman (01:03)

We have,

You know what that was? That was a hook. So we'll tell you about the avocado right after I tell you a little bit about my friend Shaina. So Shaina is actually an income and influence strategist and she's not known as the avocado friend. She is known as a media and money mentor. And Shaina leads a dynamic multimedia and training company dedicated to helping ambitious women own their influence and elevate their income.

Shayna Davis (01:10)

Awesome.

Amanda Kaufman (01:28)

She offers specialized courses, events, and mentoring programs to equip corporations to leverage their visibility as a business strategy. So as the host of a podcast ranked in the top 3 % globally, Shana brings a wealth of experience, including speaking and training at some of the top companies in the world, securing sponsorships for celebrities, as well as guiding entrepreneurs in landing significant business deals. And she has received multiple awards. She's published several books.

and been featured in over 500 media outlets. And the reason why she's my avocado friend is because we are in a business incubator together. And I was telling one of my off the wall stories as I do, and it did feature avocados. And when Shana saw me next at this incubator, she walks up and she hands me an avocado and I just about died on the spot. It was incredible. you're Shana, you've got

One heck of a resume, but I just have to add to it. You know how to catch some attention and you are just one of those built-in friend kind of people and I really love that about you.

Shayna Davis (02:36)

Thank you for saying that. That means a lot. I feel the same way about you.

Amanda Kaufman (02:39)

Yeah, well, hey, I'm so

excited that you're here on the show. So, Shayna, like, you have done so much. Can you just catch us up on maybe, how'd you get started in this entrepreneurial journey? Like, how do you get to 500 media outlets? Like, that's something. Wow.

Shayna Davis (03:00)

I'm old. No, seriously. Seriously. I was an accidental entrepreneur and not the way that some people, many people, they think about accidental entrepreneurship of like, I lost my job and I was forced into like, hey, nothing's hidden. And so let me start a business or whatever. Mine was more accidental in the standpoint of I actually went to school to be a therapist. I'm an occupational therapist by trade.

Amanda Kaufman (03:01)

No, you're not. stop.

Shayna Davis (03:25)

And what ended up happening was, that shortly after school, I was having people that were coming to me like, you know, like, well help us out, help us out, help us out. And I'm like, I called one of my friends that was kind of doing a similar thing. And I asked him, I was like, unless I cloned myself like four or five times over, like how am I supposed to say yes to all of this stuff? And he goes, well, actually what you do is, is that you just get a contract with them. And then you have other therapists that you're outsourcing.

the visits to and basically like you bill them for a lot more than what you're paying the therapist to go out. I mean, you're still giving them like the normal wage that they should be getting. And so what ended up happening was is that within 90 days, I had 23 therapists that were working for me. But prior to that, you know, people were asking me like, well, how do you start a business and how do you grow a business? And maybe you should teach classes that

church and stuff like that. And so I was actually like coaching people before I even knew what coaching was. I didn't think anybody had coaches outside of people that were in like sports or like voice coaches or something. I had no idea what a business coach was. And so I kind of fell into entrepreneurship just by accident, not even realizing that that's what they were asking me to do. And then before you knew it, so many people were asking me to coach them. And what I recognized Amanda was that not only do I have a gift,

Amanda Kaufman (04:34)

Yeah.

Shayna Davis (04:48)

for being able to function at a high level. I really have a gift of being able to teach other people how to do what it is that I do, because it's not the same. Everybody that's good at something can't necessarily teach you how to do it. And so that kind of got my entrepreneur journey off the ground.

Amanda Kaufman (05:05)

Goodness, that is so, so true. You know, I just had my 40th birthday and I was sitting there at a picnic table outside a cabin, hanging out with my family. And I was writing down like my top 40 lessons. So of course I made a list of 50, but overachievers unite, let's go. But one of the things is like, you don't really know something until you can teach something to someone else and they can repeat or act on the knowledge, right?

Shayna Davis (05:21)

Yes.

100.

Amanda Kaufman (05:34)

That was one of the things. So I love that you called that out. And I mean, you really do have such a powerful way with people. 23 hires in 90 days would be impressive for any company, right? So, you know, I think that that's one of your superpowers. So, you know, you business coach, you help people to build their influence. I'm just so curious, like, what do you think? What do you think is the number one thing or the number top three things?

that a lot of entrepreneurs maybe even unknowingly are not doing that they really could be doing that could really boost their influence.

Shayna Davis (06:10)

Stepping over dollars to get to dimes. As coaches, how many times have we had the conversation with someone like, I'd really love to work with you, but I just can't afford to pay you that. Like, even if you give them a payment plan, you bring it all the way down. Like so often times when we're only selling our coaching services, and I'm assuming that the bulk of your audience are coaches, so that's why I'm using strictly that lens. But if you happen to be listening to this in business in any kind of way,

Amanda Kaufman (06:13)

you

Shayna Davis (06:38)

Oftentimes what happens is that if you're only selling to individual consumers, they either don't value investing in themselves or even if they do, they don't have the money to afford to, you know, to be able to pay you what is that you're charging. And so I think many of us, if we could just shift our perspective of what if I took the exact same skillset that I'm selling this product or service to individual consumers and I positioned it.

Amanda Kaufman (06:48)

better off the capacity.

Shayna Davis (07:05)

for larger companies, what could that do for me?

And so just want to share a little bit of statistic so that people can wrap their mind around the numbers of this. So many of us are, and the percentage may be different this many years later than when I first heard it, but I'm sure it's probably not too far off. But there's a stat that says that only 2 % of small business owners ever break the million dollar mark. And many people are familiar with that quote or something similar.

But here's the other part of the quote that almost no one tells you. But of those that do, 56 % of their revenue comes from larger organizations. So what that says to me is that it's not impossible for you to break the million dollar mark if you're not selling to larger organizations. But you're gonna be more likely to get to that million dollar mark because they, number one, they value investing in themselves. And number two, they have the money to pay you.

And so I just think that many of us have not been taught. And I won't even get into the fact that most of the people that are out there teaching it, I can tell you by looking at their sales page that they have no idea what they're talking about in terms of teaching you how to do it.

Amanda Kaufman (08:15)

Gosh, I run into that one. Yeah. That is.

you're just like making me want to kind of rush to my whiteboard, my battle board and like kind of re rejig a couple of things, because that's actually been my experience as well is that, you know, the Pareto principle is basically that 80 percent of any population is really actually ascribed to like 20 percent of the of the real population. So, for example, Pareto was an Italian mathematician, dear listener, who noticed that 80 percent of the properties were

owned by 20 % of the landlords. that I love that example. He also counted a bunch of peas and pea pods and found that 20 % of the pea pods had 80 % of the peas. And like that, I will just say very publicly here on this podcast, that's 1000 % how my business metrics have actually worked out that 20 % of my customers have represented 80 % of my revenue. And you know, it is very much that decision.

What's coming up for me is like this decision to perform at that higher level and I'm thinking about that phrase, know goals make demands You know when you decide that you're gonna operate at that higher level you're gonna have higher Value contracts you're gonna be serving serving Clientele and customers at that higher higher level. It does demand something different from you. Would you agree with that?

Shayna Davis (09:35)

I think it demands something different from you in terms of oftentimes lack of confidence can creep in even more so because it's what you don't hear about the most. It's what you don't know about the most. It's not where your mind naturally goes. However, I do feel like if we really get into the nitty gritty of what it takes to do it, the process is still the same. You you still have to have outreach. You still have to have conversations.

Your messaging still has to convey how what you offer is a solution to their problem. So, so much of it is not different. Like the sales cycle might be a little bit longer. You may have to talk to two people instead of one. But outside of some of those small nuances, there are more similarities to selling your stuff to larger organizations than there are differences. And when you have that aha moment, that's when you really go, well, what if 20 % of my clients were larger organizations instead of consumers?

what could that do, you know, for my revenue? And I'm not saying that you have to abandon what it is that you're doing now, but what I am saying is can you consider adding it in? I don't only sell my services to large organizations. For, you know, individuals who are our business owners, you know, I say to them, like, in my opinion, if you have a message, you should have a podcast. But we have to recognize that we should really be using our podcast.

as the gateway to those larger opportunities. And the way that I discovered that was I noticed that, you know, years ago, I was landing corporate sponsors for myself and for celebrities. I was landing corporate contracts. And I noticed how much easier it is now for me to do those things now that I have a show. So I'm not at all saying that you can't have, think of it as like divisions or departments in your business. I'm not at all saying that you have to 100 % pivot.

because I don't do that. You know, I have some services that I sell that are for business owners and then I have some services that I sell are for large organizations. And for the most part, it doesn't take me much more effort to land a corporate contract than it does for me to convince an entrepreneur to get into a $1,500 program.

Amanda Kaufman (11:44)

Yes, yes, yes, I love this. This is so good. And I love how you're thinking about it too, is like revenue streams within the business. Like don't feel like you have to cut off your nose to spite your face, but I think it is like a really good idea, especially at the time that we're doing this recording 2025. In the coaching industry and entrepreneurs at large, I have been hearing...

Shayna Davis (11:46)

Yeah.

Amanda Kaufman (12:08)

endless complaints from entrepreneurs of like, you know, like, it's harder to sell, it's the things that worked before aren't working now. And what I love about your solution of like, hey, who else can you serve? Right? Can you package, can you package what you do and you know, to another hungry market that's able to pay? Right? And I think sometimes entrepreneurs tend to overly simplify because we kind of take that

idea of focus a bit too far sometimes. That's what I feel anyway. And what I've noticed is when I've had some diversity inside my business where I had different revenue channels, different product channels, some will be up, some will be down, but because I've got the diversity, I end up with more stability over the long term anyway. So I agree with you, Shayna.

Shayna Davis (12:55)

Yeah, I

would love to share if you don't mind just one quick way of how this looks so that people aren't thinking like, well, what would I even offer? Like, is that a whole new thing I have to learn?

Amanda Kaufman (13:04)

you are going exactly

where I wanted to go next, which is like, how do I do this? Like, let's say I'm like, OK, I agree with you. Fine. Awesome. How do I how do I make that that that product or offering a reality?

Shayna Davis (13:12)

Absolutely.

So I'm gonna share one way that you can look at it and it's the way that I did it before. And then I'm gonna share the way that I think you should really look at it or how I'm choosing to look at it today because I've just recognized that there's so much more opportunity. So what I did when I made the shift back in, I don't know, a long time ago, what I was doing was as I asked myself, because at that point I was a general business coach. So I didn't go completely into like my entrepreneurial journey. So in the beginning, I was a general business coach.

Amanda Kaufman (13:26)

Okay.

Shayna Davis (13:44)

Then I became more specialized and I taught small business owners how to land corporate contracts and how to land corporate sponsors because I had figured out that process on my own. I'd scabbed my own knees enough to let my losses be other people's lessons. And so what I did at that time, and neither one of these ways is wrong, I just want to show you two different ways that it can look. What I did at that time was I asked myself, because I was a general business coach, well, if I'm helping a business owner to be productive,

and effective and efficient, could I not just do that same thing for a corporate leader or a group of leaders? And the answer to that was yes. And so there was zero shift for the most part in what it is that I was doing. I was just now doing it with a new group of people. Now what I do and what I really recommend that people do is create what I call a transcendent brand. Like how can you create a, how can you brand yourself

Amanda Kaufman (14:23)

Absolutely.

Shayna Davis (14:41)

in a way that it easily transcends to all these different departments, if you will. And so I'll use myself for an example. You heard me mention like my strategy of podcasting. So when I decided at the end of last year to say, you know what, I want to go all in to teach a podcaster how they can land what I call the high five opportunities. Let me get in the video high five. That's corporate contracts, corporate sponsors, major media appearances, high paid speaking engagements and traditional book deals.

That's what I think that we should do. I think that we should use the visibility of our show. And if you don't have a podcast, I'll translate this in your language in a second. I think you take the visibility of your show and then build an ecosystem of these products and services and partnerships around it. I call that visibility ROI. But even though I've grown my podcast to the top 3 % in the world, even though podcasting is central to my strategy, I don't brand myself as a podcast expert.

I brand myself as an influence expert. So my transcendent brand or my umbrella brand, if you want to look at it that way, is influence. So then what that allows me to do is that allows me to say, I serve my lane of influence, because that's kind of like your master arena, if you will. I serve that arena in multiple different ways. In this lane, I serve entrepreneurs.

Amanda Kaufman (16:01)

Mm-hmm.

Shayna Davis (16:04)

showing them how they can build multimedia empires with a podcast at the center. Over here, the Today Show can bring me on, let's just say, at the time of this recording, we're just coming out of Women's, National Women's Month or whatever March is. And you know, the Today Show could bring me on to say like, this is how a woman owns her influence, right? A corporation can bring me in and say, I wanna pay you to come in and talk to all of our emerging leaders about how they can use their influence in the ways of executive presence.

How can they use their influence to communicate better during presentations? So one is specific, one is scalable. Let's say you're a health coach and what you're doing right now is you're helping moms learn how to lose weight. Well, what if your transcendent brand was women's total wellbeing? Because you don't have to stop serving the moms to teach them how to lose weight, but how can you look at women's total wellbeing and teach corporations how their women can be?

more holistically successful. How can you be brought on to television to talk about those things? One is specific and one is scalable. And so those are the two different ways that you can kind of look at. How do I make that shift if I'm now open to the opportunity that there's bigger opportunities out there and there's more scalable and predictable revenue streams that are out there than maybe what we've been doing in our coaching business to date.

Amanda Kaufman (17:29)

Totally, totally, totally. So questions that's coming up for me now is like, okay, I see the path. I see the idea of going maybe from being very niche, which is what most coaches do is they get very niche and they get their first successes and they get their testimonials and they get their confidence and they get all that kind of stuff to broadening it up a bit so that you can match the needs of a larger customer, right? A larger client. How do you know you're ready for that?

Shayna Davis (17:55)

I would

like to note though that it's still a niche because some people are like, but no, that's anti everything I've been taught. I've been told to niche down. You're still niching down. You're just looking at what it is that you do in broader themes, but even that broader theme of influence is still a niche.

Amanda Kaufman (18:10)

I totally agree with it.

I think a lot, yes, you are absolutely right. I think that niche gets taught so badly most of the time. Like I got it taught to me five different ways before I got the way that I'm like, I think that's the way. So a niche, ladies and gentlemen, is a segment of a market. Okay, so it's representative of a group of people.

So when you're moving to serving say corporations or academic, know, or nonprofit, and you were serving over here in the individual customer, you are changing niches, but it's still a niche because it's still a group that is characterized by a need, a demand that they have that they're shopping for this thing. So it's a market and it's a subsection of that market. And you're changing your language and you're changing your positioning and your message to match the new niche.

I think a lot of people teach niche as it's actually your specialty, like the thing that you're special at doing or a result that you like to create, but that's not a niche and it gets taught all the time and it drives me crazy. So I'm really glad that you just called that out because you know, it's helpful to just know it's like, no, no, I'm just, it's kind of like shifting an audience. You're shifting your audience, right? As opposed to your specialty or all the skills that you bring to bear. So my question is,

Let's just say that somebody has been in business for a few years, they've gotten some reps. Like, can they just jump right in to serving the big fish? Or should they get some reps, you know, thinking about the niche and the direction of it? The thing about niche marketing, y'all, is because you can have multiple niches, right? Different groups that you're targeting with different messaging, and then have very similar product delivery on the backend. So.

Shayna Davis (19:40)

Yep.

Absolutely.

Amanda Kaufman (19:58)

Do you think that it's better for somebody to get a lot of reps, you know, maybe in a more targeted niche so that they're building their confidence before they go for the big fish or should they go straight for the big fish?

Shayna Davis (20:09)

Not necessarily. I would say how well, you know, we talked about the fact of like, there's a difference between knowing how to do something and being able to teach what it is that you know. How proficient have you become in what it is that you're doing now? Because there's some people that like, maybe they leave corporate America and in corporate America, they were always over marketing and communications. And then when they decided to become a business owner,

Amanda Kaufman (20:20)

Mm-hmm.

Shayna Davis (20:36)

Maybe they only decided to become a business owner six months ago, but they're still kind of doing marketing and communications. Like they don't need to wait, you know? So I would say, I want you to get your reps in to make sure that anything you're selling, anyone, that you actually know what the heck you're doing. But if you know that you're able to get people results,

You can from the very first day that you're ever starting a business to decide that I want nothing but corporate contracts, just like you can decide on the very first day of your business that I only want to work with whoever it is that you've decided. So once you know that you can confidently say to yourself that you know that you're able to get people results, I say that's when you know you're ready. If you can't confidently say that you can get them results, then I'm going to ask you, are you really getting results for anybody that you're working with now?

You know what mean?

Amanda Kaufman (21:29)

Ding, ding, she said it. my

gosh, yes. No, it's so true. It's so, true. And that commitment to results and that commitment to getting your process, your skillset, your capability, like to me, that is the value differentiator. That's the thing that separates those that are gonna have plenty of opportunity, lots of pipeline, big business.

and those that are gonna struggle is because you know you're struggling. You know that you need to develop your skills and you know that you need to develop in lots of different ways. And that's why entrepreneurship is risky and can be incredibly rewarding, right? Like the payoff is for the person who's gonna persevere through that. So good. Shayna, what is the best way for people to follow you and find out what you're up to?

Shayna Davis (22:11)

I agree.

I'm most active on Instagram and I'm Shana Rattler Davis over there, all one word, no underscores or any of that jazz. And so that's where I'm the most active at is over there on the good old IG.

Amanda Kaufman (22:32)

That's great, that's awesome. and we've got Shana's website and her other links and everything available for you in the show notes. Shana, thank you so much for such a fun and energizing conversation.

Shayna Davis (22:45)

Absolutely. Can I give your audience a free gift?

Amanda Kaufman (22:48)

Please.

Shayna Davis (22:50)

So if you've been listening to this and you're like, I am a 100 % heck yes that I want to learn better how to do this. I actually have a paid resource that I want to give you for free. And so what I've created, it's called the Influence Economy Playbook because like the name of my show, the name of whatever it is that I do in my business, I call it the Influence Economy because I believe that when we begin to treat our influence actually like an asset,

we will realize that there's just this whole new era of success that is open to us. And so I want to teach you how to be successful in the influence economy. And so if you're listening to this and you're like, totally want to figure out like what are the best ways to position myself to be able to get some of these high five opportunities, you can go to InfluenceEconomyPlaybook.com.

but you're gonna wanna use the code free. And let me just say this because there's always one person that doesn't listen to this and then they ask me for their money back. When you go to the page, the way e-commerce sites work, you can't offer anybody anything for free if they don't still put their credit card number in. So whenever you put in the word free, click on that little check mark that's next to it and it's gonna zero it out and you're gonna show that it's not gonna charge you anything. Every single time someone does not do that and then I always get an email and they're like, can I have?

$47 back and you said this was free. Just follow the instructions. Type the word in free, go to InfluenceEconomyPlaybook.com, type in the word free for the coupon code, hit the check mark, it's gonna go to zero instead of $47 and I guarantee you, I'm never gonna know what your credit card number is and you're never gonna be charged. But you will get thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars of sophisticated strategy.

You're gonna get a visibility checklist that you can use every month and you're gonna get a visibility ROI calculator so that you can make sure that even if you don't go down the bigger organization, bigger check route, you can actually look at what are all the different things that you're doing in your business right now for visibility and determine whether or not it's giving you any return on investment.

Amanda Kaufman (24:52)

That is outstanding. my gosh, that is so generous. Thank you so much, Shaina. You are a baddie. You're just, I really am so appreciative that we've crossed paths and gotten to know each other. And I can't wait to have you back. I'm just gonna put that out there. Can't wait to have you back.

Shayna Davis (25:04)

Yes.

Yes.

Amanda Kaufman (25:10)

And so, hey, listener, if this was valuable for you, which I know it must have been if you're sticking around this long, go ahead and subscribe so that you don't miss another episode and go ahead and share this episode with two or three of your friends who you believe in. You want to see them think real big.

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